Alyn Smith (Greens/EFA) and Derek Clark (EFD) want to reclaim the sovereignty of their country, but in different ways. Would independence affect jobs and influence?

360°: Get me out of here!

Hello and welcome to 360°,  an all-round look at a topic of interest.

I say 'all-round' but in fact this programme  has a distinctly Anglo-Saxon flavour.

We'll be talking about getting out  of the European Union.

Yes, I know we're told that Croatia  will bring EU membership to 28

and there are other would-be  members queuing up.

But what if one of the existing ones  were to slip away?

Under the Lisbon Treaty  that's become possible.

Incidentally, any choosing to do that  can also apply to rejoin.

I've got two guests in the studio:  Derek Clark of the UK Independence Party,

part of the EFD group, and Alyn Smith  of the Scottish National Party

which sits with the Greens/EFA group  and whose party is in power in Scotland.

Both favour separation of a sort  but not the same sort.

But before we hear from them,  let's take a look at this report.

Hello, my name is José.  I come from Spain.

Is it possible for a Member State  to leave the EU?

Mr Farage, why don't we implement  Article 9 of the Treaty?

You could ask to leave the EU  and never worry about it again.

EPP Chair Joseph Daul said it during  Van Rompuy's first visit to the EP:

It's now in black and white;  a novelty of the Lisbon Treaty.

A Member State willing to regain its  sovereignty must first notify the Council.

The withdrawal negotiations then follow.

The Member State doesn't have  to discuss it with the other states.

and stop implementing EU directives  overnight.

Or, it has two years  to negotiate its withdrawal.

Great Britain  tried to leave the EU in 1975.

It organised a referendum,  but 67.2% chose staying in the EU.

In 1973, Greenland joined the EEC  as a part of Denmark.

Upon gaining home rule  the island withdrew from Europe in 1985.

The Treaty had to be modified  to allow for the withdrawal.

Today, no veto can prevent  a Member State from withdrawing.

The Council will negotiate the agreement  on the terms of withdrawal

The agreement will define the relations  between the EU and the former Member.

The country will always be able to rejoin

but it will have to apply again  like any other candidate country.

Is it possible to leave  or be expelled from the eurozone?

Mrs Merkel launched the debate  in the Bundestag.

But, for now,  EU rules don't provide for it.

So let's recap. A Member State  can leave the EU whenever it wants to.

After the official request,  the withdrawal can take up to 2 years.

by going through the accession process  like any other candidate.

So there you go. You can leave  the EU now under the Lisbon Treaty.

I must apologise, Alyn Smith pointed out  that I said it's an Anglo-Saxon subject.

In fact, it's Anglo-Saxon and Celtic as well.  So very important that.

First to you Derek.  According to a recent poll,

53% of people in the UK say they've found  EU membership a negative experience.

Is that enough for your party  to win a referendum

Probably not, but that percentage  is growing all the time.

Come back in 12 months' time and that  53% will have gone up considerably.

I don't see us having a referendum  within 12 months

so I think by the time Cameron finally  agrees to have a referendum

that figure will have gone up considerably.

Do you feel it will be an inevitability  that there'll be a referendum?

No, because Cameron is playing this game  of saying that he wants to stay in the EU

whilst objecting to some of its provisions  like his recent so-called veto.

But he keeps saying  he wants to stay in the EU

and that is the traditional,  still-continuing, Tory line

as indeed it is with Labour  and the Lib Dems.

Alyn Smith. If there were  to be a referendum

and the UK were to vote  in favour of leaving the EU

would that strengthen Scotland's  case to leave the UK?

It's really what you would like to see  happen, or at least your party would.

We will have a referendum in Scotland  on Scottish independence in Autumn 2014.

We'll put that issue  to the people of Scotland.

Obviously the European aspects  of that are part of that discussion.

I'm with Derek actually,  I don't see a UK referendum happening.

I think the Westminster authorities  would bottle it.

If it did happen, I think the people  of the UK would see sense.

I don't think that Labour, the Tories,  the Lib Dems, the Greens combined,

not least with ourselves, would actually be  campaigning against EU membership.

I think we would see the UK pull this debate  down and actually make a decision to say,

'Right, we are part of the European  continent, let's get on with this.'

Just to explain, for those who aren't  up-to-date with UK news,

the UK Independence Party would like  to see the UK pull out of the EU,

the Scottish National Party would really like  to see Scotland pull out of the UK.

That's a very different thing  because the SNP has always wanted

Sure, I'd pick you up even  on the phrasing there.

We're in favour of Scottish independence,  not to pull out of anything

but to rejoin the world  as an independent state.

Scotland, of course, since 1707 has been  part of Great Britain and the UK thereafter.

But it's not working in the best interests  of the people of Scotland.

We are part of the EU, part of its territory,  by virtue of our membership of the UK.

All of that we keep on independence,  but instead of being represented by...

I suspect Derek and I can  agree on this point.

Cameron has shockingly poorly represented  British and Scottish interests within the EU.

and undermined the progress  to fixing the financial crisis,

So, Scotland could do better,  like Ireland, Denmark, Sweden.

We'll be the 14th biggest Member State  of the EU as an independent state.

The EU is a very different union to the UK.

We want to be part of that  and run our own show domestically.