2nd topic of the Eurovision Debate 2024 between the lead candidates for the Commission presidency: Nicolas SCHMIT, Party European Socialists, Sandro GOZI, Renew Europe Now, Terry REINTKE, European Greens, Ursula von der LEYEN, European People's Party and Walter BAIER, European Left. The candidates focus mainly on EU common response on Russia's invasion of Ukraine and the bloc's further assistance to Ukraine. They also discuss EU's future defence and security challenges and how to tackle them. This transcription is a result of an automatic process. Please check against delivery.

Brussels

SCHMIT, Nicolas (LU, EC)

debate

common security and defence policy (T)

REINTKE, Terry (Greens/EFA, DE)

GOZI, Sandro (Renew, FR)

Eurovision debate between candidates for the Presidency of the European Commission (T)

VON DER LEYEN, Ursula (DE, EC)

solidarity with Ukraine (T)

2024 European elections (T)

consequences of the war in Ukraine (T)

BAIER, Walter (AT)

BECK, Annelies (BE)

ŘEZNÍČEK, Martin (CZ)

Eurovision Debate 2024 (Clean feed) - Topic 2: Defence and Security

SOUNDBITE (Original), Annelies BECK, Eurovision debate 2024 moderator, Defense and security. I think that's clear. Keep people up at night, from Madrid to Oslo and from Brussels to Vilnius. And indeed, it is to Vilnius that we turn for our first question on defense and security. From Vilnius in Lithuania, the floor is yours.

SOUNDBITE (Original), Chris, journalist from Lithuania, Hello from Vilnius. My name is [...] I'm a journalist from Lithuania, National radio and television. And here in our headquarters, we are closely following the debate. There is a lot of young people. Standing next to me is Nicolas. Hello, Brussels. He's in the 12th grade. He's going to be a first time voter. So he has a question for the candidates. So my question will be how do European Union can enhance the cooperation in the field of defense, make the countries by defense products together and make the defense market more integrated?

SOUNDBITE (Original), Annelies BECK, Eurovision debate 2024 moderator, That's a very clear question. Thank you very much for that. And I'll pass it on to you. Sandro Gozi , what can be done?

SOUNDBITE (Original), Sandro GOZI, lead Candidate of Renew Europe Now, Well, one third of citizens in Europe are right because the brutal violence and aggressive empire back. And because Putin will not stopping here. This is why we must win in Ukraine. And that is why we need a real European power. As our friend for video asked. Because either you are powerful to sit at the table and to defend your interests, or you find yourself in the menu decided in Beijing and Washington. And that is not a very nice perspective for us, is why we want to develop a European defense industry. This is why we call for a €100 billion plan to boost defense and European defense with joint bonds. We are very credible. Our leader Macron, Kallas, De Croo, our commissioner Breton. I've worked a lot on this. But you know what? It is my last point there is no real security without more culture and education. For every euro that you spend on defense, you must add €1 for culture, education and knowledge.

SOUNDBITE (Original), Annelies BECK, Eurovision debate 2024 moderator, And with that, your time is up. Thank you very much. The same question for you, Miss Reintke. How can the EU enhance closer cooperation in the field of defense?

SOUNDBITE (Original), Terry REINTKE, lead candidate of the European Greens, I wish I would be standing here and say that we don't have to put this in the center, because we wouldn't have a brutal war in the east of Europe. We wouldn't have an aggressor like Vladimir Putin in the east of Europe. But we are at a turning point for Europe. And the question on whether we are going to work together on defense and security is going to be key for our citizens. And yes, we have to work together when it comes to procurement, when it comes to research of development. And this is not only a question of whether we can defend ourselves. This is also a question of whether we are spending taxpayers money efficiently, because right now in the European Union, we still have too many only nationally focused projects. So the European Union has to work closer together. We need to have a European fund to spend on defense. But also let me tell you this, we cannot only end by spending money together. We also finally have to end unanimity in Council when it comes to foreign and security policy. We cannot give people like Viktor Orban a veto right on our security. So let us end unanimity in Council.

SOUNDBITE (Original), Annelies BECK, Eurovision debate 2024 moderator, Thank you very much. And I, quickly want to remind you not to forget your cards. You all have three cards left, except for Mr. Baier, who already used one.

SOUNDBITE (Original), Martin ŘEZNÍČEK, Eurovision debate 2024 moderator, And you may use one after this if you want to, whenever you want to of course. In some EU countries, people as young as 16 or 17 years old will be able to vote for the first time in this upcoming European elections. We have some of those first time voters here in the audience with us in Brussels. Let's go now to Maia and Ola from Poland. They are content creators with significant presence on social media, and they're here. So over to you, Maia and Ola. Please.

SOUNDBITE (Original), Maia and Ola from Poland Yeah. Thank you so much. Since 2022, Europe has sent tens of billions of euros worth of aid to Ukraine, much of it as military assistance, and billions more is promised. At the same time, member states have also increased their spending on their own security system and armaments. So our question is, should Europe's priority remain training soldiers and purchasing weapons and ammunition for Ukraine? Or is it now time for the EU to focus primarily on arming its own member states? Thank you.

SOUNDBITE (Original), Martin ŘEZNÍČEK, Eurovision debate 2024 moderator, The question is clear. Thank you, Maia, and also for this question. And it goes to Nicole Schmit, please.

SOUNDBITE (Original), Nicolas SCHMIT, lead candidate of the Party of European Socialists, Well, you know, I share the view that I would prefer not to invest so much money into defense or in helping the Ukrainians. We haven't chosen the war. We haven't chosen the threats coming from Russia and the fascist regime in Moscow. So it is absolutely important for our security to have a free life, to protect our values, to invest in defense. But that does not mean that we should not invest in our social cohesion, because security is obviously about defense. It's about military, but it's also about internal cohesion. And that goes together. So both have to be possible.

SOUNDBITE (Original), Martin ŘEZNÍČEK, Eurovision debate 2024 moderator, Thank you, Mr. Schmit. The same question. The same question. Arming Ukraine/ arming member states goes to you, Mrs Von der Leyen.

SOUNDBITE (Original), Ursula VON DER LEYEN, lead candidate of the European People's Party, Yes. I think we need not an either or, but we need both, because, we have to improve our defense industry. We have to make sure that the fragmentation we have in the European Union stops, that we have common European projects. For example, an air defense shield for all of Europe like it was proposed by Mitsotakis and Tusk is some as a project where all of Europeans could say, yes, we take the money, we invest in that. This protects all of Europe. But of course, first and foremost we have to stand by Ukraine. Ukraine is fighting a war that is freedom against oppression. That's a war that is democracy against autocracy. Ukraine is fighting for our values and all free nations. So we have to support Ukraine in the first place and of course, ramp up our own defense at the same time.

SOUNDBITE (Original), Martin ŘEZNÍČEK, Eurovision debate 2024 moderator, Thank you very much. Another card that wants to be played is by Miss Reintke.

SOUNDBITE (Original), Terry REINTKE, lead candidate of the European Greens, I believe we cannot speak about security without speaking about what I believe is the biggest threat to our security right now, and that is the rise of the far right. We see that there are far right politicians that want to destabilize this union, that want to take away the fundament of what has built peace, freedom and prosperity in Europe over the last decades. And we see revelations of far right politicians that are working with Putin, that are working with China, that are trying to undermine our interests. And the biggest security strategy that we need to have is to prevent a shift to the far from happening. We cannot have the extended arms of Vladimir Putin sitting in Parliament. We are going to stand up to that. Europe has to resist to this far right threat.

SOUNDBITE (Original), Martin ŘEZNÍČEK, Eurovision debate 2024 moderator, Thank you, Miss Reintke. Annelies?

SOUNDBITE (Original), Annelies BECK, Eurovision debate 2024 moderator, Yes, I want to put this question to you. In a recent speech and interview, President Macron of France spoke of Europe facing existential threats. And that and I quote, civilizations can die. We know from opinions that increasing numbers of Europeans worry about their and their family's future. Now, how seriously do you think Europe is existentially threatened? And what is your message to concerned voters? And I put this question to you, Mr. Baier.

SOUNDBITE (Original), Walter BAIER, lead candidate of the European Left, I think the most urgent threat to security is the ecological disaster which we are heading to. And unfortunately, Nicolas, we can spend €1 only once. And now I know that NATO, already spent €1.3 trillion on defense. This is three times much more than China and Russia combined. European NATO countries, spend two times more for defense than Russia. And I'm wondering if this is not enough. And that's why I believe we need for ecological, for political, and also for social reasons, political solutions to the conflicts in which we are in. We need disarmament, we need peace, and we need stability in Europe.

SOUNDBITE (Original), Annelies BECK, Eurovision debate 2024 moderator, Thank you, Mr. Baier and Mr. Gozi, I see you put up your card and Mr Schmit, after that, Mr. Gozi

SOUNDBITE (Original), Sandro GOZI, lead Candidate of Renew Europe Now, You know, I, I would like to to, to address myself to Mrs. Von der Leyen because, we all share the need to strengthen defense. But I say that I have to say that I am a little bit disappointed with your record in this term, because your first speech on European defense came in October 2023. You promised a European sovereignty fund. You come up with a little step. And which was 1 billion, €1 billion. They industry defense program €1 billion. We we need 100 more. We don't know whether you are in favor of Euro bond for defense. So how can you ensure that in a new term you would better comply with your words?

SOUNDBITE (Original), Annelies BECK, Eurovision debate 2024 moderator, Okay. Thank you very much. Mrs Von der Leyen, you can reply 30 seconds

SOUNDBITE (Original), Ursula VON DER LEYEN, lead candidate of the European People's Party, So I think it is absolute paramount indeed to look at the financing of defense. And I've been very clear, I have just proposed a project that we could do as a common European project, and here it is up to us to say yes, we want to fund it together as Europeans, but then we have to speak about how is the funding. There are two options to do that, either national contributions on your own resources for the European level. And I think it is no time to really speak about new own resources for the European level. You cannot give tasks to the European level without funding it. So we should join forces and talk to the member states and be in the Parliament strong to say, now let's work on the new own resources for the European level in order to really fund our defense.

SOUNDBITE (Original), Annelies BECK, Eurovision debate 2024 moderator, Thank you for that. Before I move to you, Mr. Schmit, I just want to check Mr. Baier, did you mean to pull the card or was it by accident? I did, you did. Okay, so I go first to Mr. Schmit, and then I come to you, Mr. Schmit.

SOUNDBITE (Original), Nicolas SCHMIT, lead candidate of the Party of European Socialists, Well, I hear all the time this figures how much we spend and how less the Russians spend. You have to look what happens every night in the sky of Ukraine. Bombing children, bombing hospitals, bombing civil institutions, houses. You have, had a good point on housing. They are destroying everyday houses in the Ukraine. And, if we are not supporting Ukraine boldly, well, we know that the Russians will be directly at our borders. They have transformed their economy into a war economy. Everything goes into defense. Now on peace, yes, everybody would like to have peace. But on which conditions? On Putin's condition saying what is mine is yours is negotiable. That Stalin and we cannot enter into such a deal.

SOUNDBITE (Original), Annelies BECK, Eurovision debate 2024 moderator, Time's up, Mr. Schmit. Thank you very much. Mr. Baier.

SOUNDBITE (Original), Walter BAIER, lead candidate of the European Left, I want to see a safe, a sovereign Ukraine with safe borders. And I want to see a reconstructed Ukraine. And that's why I'm asking you. When will you concentrate that which is on Ukraine? Hundred billion euros for fighting for the values which unite us with them. But then secondly and that was the reason why I pressed about them. I'm really amazed. I'm really amazed by the fact that we are still standing here talking about peace and security, and nobody even mentions Gaza and Israel and in Maastricht

SOUNDBITE (Original), Annelies BECK, Eurovision debate 2024 moderator, Times up there Mr Baier. I'm sorry to say, no one is pulling a card so far

SOUNDBITE (Original), Walter BAIER, lead candidate of the European Left, In Maastricht, I'm asking you and I do it repeatedly. When will the European Union put sanctions on Israel to stop the murdering in Gaza? ..

SOUNDBITE (Original), Annelies BECK, Eurovision debate 2024 moderator, Thank you. Mr. Baier. Mrs. Von der Leyen, I would like to give you a right to reply to that pointed question.

SOUNDBITE (Original), Ursula VON DER LEYEN, lead candidate of the European People's Party, Yes, we all know that it is a dramatic situation in Gaza. We should not forget where it comes from. The 7th of October was the brutal attack of Hamas on innocent people. And this is horrible and we have to acknowledge it. But I was always clear also with the government in Israel that Israel has the right to defend itself as laid down in the UN charter, but it has to do this in line with international and humanitarian law. The situation in Gaza is catastrophic. This is the reason why we have quadrupled our humanitarian aid. This is a reason, actually, to set the record straight why we have not suspended Unwra payments, but we have paid the first tranche as it was meant in March, now in May and in September. So do everything possible to support the people in Gaza. That is our duty as European Union and then to work for a two state solution, because this is the only light at the end of the tunnel that Gaza has.

SOUNDBITE (Original), Annelies BECK, Eurovision debate 2024 moderator, And with that, your time is up. Thank you Mrs Vonder Leyen. And over to you, Martin

SOUNDBITE (Original), Martin ŘEZNÍČEK, Eurovision debate 2024 moderator, Thank you. Annelies. Before we move on, I would like to do a quick round up of your cards available. Mr Baier, you have one remaining card. Mr. Gozi, Miss Reintke and Mr. Schmit, you have two remaining. And Mrs Von der Leyen, you have three remaining cards. It is time.