Press conference by Gwendoline DELBOS-CORFIELD (Greens/EFA, FR), rapporteur, Isabel WISELER-LIMA (PPE, LU), Thijs REUTEN (S&D, NL), Sophie IN 'T VELD (RE, NL) and Malin BJÖRK (The Left, SE) hold a press on the situation in Hungary following the deliberate and systematic efforts of the Hungarian government to undermine the founding values of the EU as enshrined in Article 2 TEU, as well as to address the issue of the "frozen" recovery funds. This transcript is the result of an automatic process. Please check delivery.

Brussels

press conference

IN 'T VELD, Sophia (Renew, NL)

EU mechanism on democracy, the rule of law and fundamental rights (T)

BJÖRK, Malin (The Left, SE)

EU - Hungary (T)

DELBOS-CORFIELD, Gwendoline (Greens/EFA, FR)

WISELER-LIMA, Isabel (EPP, LU)

REUTEN, Thijs (S&D, NL)

Press conference by Gwendoline DELBOS-CORFIELD, Rapporteur, Isabel WISELER-LIMA, Thijs REUTEN, Sophie IN 'T VELD, Malin BJÖRK on breaches of the Rule of Law and fundamental rights in Hungary and frozen EU funds

SOUNDBITE (English), Gwendoline DELBOS-CORFIELD (Greens/EFA, FR), Rapporteur, Thank you. So hello everyone, Gwendoline DELBOS-CORFIELD, rapporteur of the Parliament on the situation on Hungary. Indeed, we are having this resolution voted tomorrow and a debate this afternoon. It's been something that we've been thinking about for the last two months because so it's a proposal that we initiated not last Strasbourg, but the Strasbourg before, because you have in front of you a team.

SOUNDBITE (English), Gwendoline DELBOS-CORFIELD (Greens/EFA, FR), Rapporteur, We work as a team a lot. So Sophie is replacing in an exceptional manner Romona Strugariu, that is a shadow. But here are my shadows and we really try to step by step, make this Article seven procedures and all of the things around the situation in Hungary work and have a strong parliament on this.

SOUNDBITE (English), Gwendoline DELBOS-CORFIELD (Greens/EFA, FR), Rapporteur, And in Strasbourg, not in May, Strasbourg, but in April Strasbourg... it's the moment where the Hungarian government proposed his whistle blower act that was even voted in Parliament. This whistleblower act was, we felt a very, very a new dangerous step, a strong step. This whistleblower act was meant to entice citizens to denounce.

SOUNDBITE (English), Gwendoline DELBOS-CORFIELD (Greens/EFA, FR), Rapporteur, Aaround topics like Rainbow Family. But also if you were not if they knew people that were not agreeing with the narrative of the government or with the Constitution and all of this. So this was for us, a perversion of the whistleblower act that it was very strange. I used at the time the word of Putinian path.

SOUNDBITE (English), Gwendoline DELBOS-CORFIELD (Greens/EFA, FR), Rapporteur, I think that already the anti LGBT law, which they called the Protecting Children law, but we know is an anti LGBTI law, was already very inspired by the Putin law of ten years ago. And and now it was a new step to create an atmosphere in Hungary of denouncing each other and and and always also finding enemies inside of your own country.

SOUNDBITE (English), Gwendoline DELBOS-CORFIELD (Greens/EFA, FR), Rapporteur, In fact, to be very clear, you may know that since Friday afternoon this law has been withdrawn. So it was voted, but they now in Parliament on Friday afternoon withdraw this law. But that was the starting point of this idea of having a new resolution.

SOUNDBITE (English), Gwendoline DELBOS-CORFIELD (Greens/EFA, FR), Rapporteur, We have had a lot of debate and resolution on Hungary in the Parliament with the focus moment of the resolution in autumn, updating the Sargentini report. Since then, we didn't have any debates or resolution. Things were not improving, but things were not also. There were no real new developments because I think the authoritarian path has been basically achieved by the Hungarian government.

SOUNDBITE (English), Gwendoline DELBOS-CORFIELD (Greens/EFA, FR), Rapporteur, So there's no not that much more development. But this new step was for us a big a strong step. That's why we decided as a team that we wanted to have a resolution in Parliament and a debate. It took two months to get, but now we are out. And in fact, the fact that it became a bit late it was very convenient because it's now coincided with also the hearing done by the Swedish presidency in the General Affairs Council, which happened you may know, yesterday morning.

SOUNDBITE (English), Gwendoline DELBOS-CORFIELD (Greens/EFA, FR), Rapporteur, So in this resolution, we we make a state of play. We say our concern about this law that was in place but was taken out. We say our concern for another law that we know is a working progress, not yet voted, which would deprive teachers from the right to strike. A new status law about students, teachers, but would also control the students.

SOUNDBITE (English), Gwendoline DELBOS-CORFIELD (Greens/EFA, FR), Rapporteur, The teachers really monitor what they do and say, this is in preparation, in brewing. So, that's what we say in the resolution. And we ask again for recommendation. We ask again for keeping the fund closed. This is more of a birds topic, but we work on this in LIBE very much also. So we asked for the closing to be continued by the Commission because we do think that things have not improved, neither on integrity, neither on independence of judiciary.

SOUNDBITE (English), Gwendoline DELBOS-CORFIELD (Greens/EFA, FR), Rapporteur, And also, and I will come to this as a last point, We we also collectively decided that it was time for us to have the debate started on the Hungarian Presidency of the Council starting on the 1st of July 2024, when this new Parliament will will be renewed and when the Commission mandate will start.

SOUNDBITE (English), Gwendoline DELBOS-CORFIELD (Greens/EFA, FR), Rapporteur, This is something we have been concerned for a long time. I have been concerned since years. I have flagged this basis in many occasions in confidential meetings with commission and council, but also in debates in press conference with you. And for the moment, it has always been a bit of a taboo. I've always been answered that well. Yeah, yeah, we can't do anything about it. This Hungarian Presidency. Okay, that's it. We need to live with it.

SOUNDBITE (English), Gwendoline DELBOS-CORFIELD (Greens/EFA, FR), Rapporteur, And also, I've often been told, you know, but don't worry, this is a sacrificed presidency because this is the presidency when nothing happens, there's no new laws. So it's it in our in our bad look, we are in luck because at least it's not in the in the worst moment. And I was not satisfied with this answer.

SOUNDBITE (English), Gwendoline DELBOS-CORFIELD (Greens/EFA, FR), Rapporteur, But when we discussed it in Strasbourg, I remember that we all suddenly realised no, but it's also the first Council Presidency of the new Commission, of the new of the new Parliament. It's also the presidency, I think it's utilised, it made us all realise that it's the presidency where we here will be making the hearings of the Commissioners. It's the presidency where you start putting in place what will be the future of the five years for Europe, for European Union.

SOUNDBITE (English), Gwendoline DELBOS-CORFIELD (Greens/EFA, FR), Rapporteur, And we also must remember that it's the Presidency, where, probably the Ukraine conflict will not be finished, Ukraine war in one way or another. And we have very strong noises coming from Hungary on this specific topic of Ukraine and Russia and Putin. Who will this Presidency invite? Where will this Presidency decide to go when they do official mission on behalf of EU? And what will this Presidency say on behalf of EU?

SOUNDBITE (English), Gwendoline DELBOS-CORFIELD (Greens/EFA, FR), Rapporteur, So, it's very good news that this little sentence in this resolution made such a noise in the last four days. I really was amazed, surprised. It's a bit of a miracle. It seems that suddenly we wanted to put the topic on the table. We wanted the topic to exist and suddenly it is really brewing. And we've even had rumours that in the Council, some Member States and some governments are indeed very concerned with this, which is very good news. At least, now things can not be put on the side. It will be for us to invent now what we can do about this Presidency.

SOUNDBITE (English), Gwendoline DELBOS-CORFIELD (Greens/EFA, FR), Rapporteur, Official text from the treaties and all of this are not very talkative about what we can do or not do. And even experts, that I consulted, are not very clear on what can be done. I think the President, the other Member States themselves don't really know. So, we need to invent, but that's also what we've been doing on Article 7 procedure since the very first day. Because the lines in the treaties were very short, so we had to invent. So, now we need to start discussing this and see how we will deal with the situation. And, now I will leave the floor to my shadows, Isabel.

SOUNDBITE (English), Isabel WISELER-LIMA (EPP, LU), Thank you very much for being here and to your interest in our resolution on Hungary. As you know, we tabled the resolution because we continue to be worried about the situation of the rule of law in Hungary. In our view, there is no progress in the Article seven procedure. And ahead of us, as Gwendoline just said, it is of concern that Hungary is due to hold the Presidency of the European Union from July 2024 on.

SOUNDBITE (English), Isabel WISELER-LIMA (EPP, LU), In fact, the first stage will begin in a month's time as the Council 18 months programme is due to be agreed by the three presidencies concerned from July this year on. But our concern in view of the statements Viktor Orban has made, the people he is likely to invite officially and the visits he is likely to make are really of concern.

SOUNDBITE (English), Isabel WISELER-LIMA (EPP, LU), This six months during which Hungary will in fact somewhat be the face of the European Union. I listened carefully yesterday to the press conference given of attend of the General Affairs Council by Jessica Rosewell, Minister of EU Affairs of Sweden, and Věra Jourov&aacute;, Vice President of the Commission.

SOUNDBITE (English), Isabel WISELER-LIMA (EPP, LU), And in fact, the statement of the Vice President after the hearing of Hungary by the Council, confirms the absence of progress made by Hungary in aligning these European values regarding the Organisation for Security and Cooperation on Election, the need to reduce the tightening of the Government during the campaign, the independence of the ombudsperson and independence of the media regulator, the transparency of the state advertising.

SOUNDBITE (English), Isabel WISELER-LIMA (EPP, LU), The public media remains a contentious issue. No positive developments regarding the right of equal treatment and concern in the area of privacy and data protection, and even the only slightly positive points that were made on judicial independence and fight against corruption and conflict of interest the Vice-President added that there was still a lot of work to do.

SOUNDBITE (English), Isabel WISELER-LIMA (EPP, LU), Now this confirms our doubts about the efficiency of the way the Council is applying Article seven. I cannot agree with Věra Jourov&aacute; when she says that it is the process that is valuable. This is really what she said yesterday.

SOUNDBITE (English), Isabel WISELER-LIMA (EPP, LU), Now, coming back to the Hungarian presidency, as Gwendolyn said, it is really the topic that clearly makes waves. Both Věra Jourov&aacute; and Jessika Roswall insisted on the fact that the issue of the Hungarian presidency was not discussed beforehand. But curiously the answer to this point was well prepared, intentionally short and mechanically repeated. The minister said the question was not raised in the Council.

SOUNDBITE (English), Isabel WISELER-LIMA (EPP, LU), The rotation is in the Treaty, she expects that every presidency respects to all of the Council and all its Member States. And the Vice President said we did not discuss it at the Commission and we act accordingly to the Treaty. The journalists raised the question four or five times, getting always the same, laconic answer.

SOUNDBITE (English), Isabel WISELER-LIMA (EPP, LU), So from our side, we don't say what the Council should do, but we ask the Council to find a solution to protect the European Union and its fundamental values. I think we would fail as European Parliament if we wouldn't share our concerns and ask for action. Thank you very much.

SOUNDBITE (English), Thijs REUTEN (S&D, NL), Thank you, Gwendolyn, and thank you for organising this press conference. Thank you all for coming. And while I would like to start with that, I want to say what the Council should do. The Council should actually understand the seriousness of what is happening here.

SOUNDBITE (English), Thijs REUTEN (S&D, NL), Hungary is no longer a democracy. There is sitting around the table a country among the 27 that is no longer a democracy. And I was in Budapest last weekend speaking to many parliamentarians, students, journalists, NGOs, and they are tired, downhearted and sometimes even demoralised, and we cannot leave them alone.

SOUNDBITE (English), Thijs REUTEN (S&D, NL), But the fundamental point is that the Council should understand the seriousness of the fact that this country is not longer a democracy. And that means that also every conversation about reforms, about what the government in Hungary is now trying to do to maximise results in terms of getting funding unfrozen in exchange for minimum effort.

SOUNDBITE (English), Thijs REUTEN (S&D, NL), Minimum effort debt can also be turned back because that is the warning we got, also back in Hungary, that even the small steps that are now on the table could be easily revoked again without us even having the potential of intervention.

SOUNDBITE (English), Thijs REUTEN (S&D, NL), So, the Council should really start to understand the seriousness of that. And it affects every topic, every other topic of our work here in the EU. And Viktor Orbán still seems to live under the illusion that he can use the EU as a cash machine, as an ATM, without bearing the consequences of the signature, of signing up to the values of this Union.

SOUNDBITE (English), Thijs REUTEN (S&D, NL), And I think that he has to understand that he cannot have it both ways. You cannot be a member of the EU being happy with a few small changes and then curtailing Hungarians and playing into Putin's hands at the same time. That is not a possibility. That is not an option. And the Council should understand this.

SOUNDBITE (English), Thijs REUTEN (S&D, NL), And I also want to stress a point that has not been mentioned yet. Orbán's detrimental impact on the EU's foreign policy. He is vetoing important decisions, for example, in support of Ukraine. That damages our credibility hugely externally, and that would obviously become more detrimental if Hungary was to hold the presidency of the Council.

SOUNDBITE (English), Thijs REUTEN (S&D, NL), And indeed I emphasise the importance of this particular presidency. Every presidency is important, but this one is particularly important. Not to speak, not to speak about the warm relations of Mr. Orbán with not only Putin, but also with clear destabilises like Vučić and Dodik.

SOUNDBITE (English), Thijs REUTEN (S&D, NL), It would be a disaster if this country would get to hold of the presidency and Orbán would do what he already said publicly, he would try to push his agenda, the agenda of Hungary into the European Union, which obviously clearly is not the task of a country holding the presidency.

SOUNDBITE (English), Thijs REUTEN (S&D, NL), So, I think that we are way beyond the moment of a warning. We urge the Council to take action and to end with, I actually am really sick and tired, of hearing back from the Council that they had a good discussion, a good exchange, and that the discussion, also yesterday, helped them to understand the problems. We are way beyond that point. We should act now. Thank you.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Thank you. Before I make my points, one slight technical correction. I am not here as a replacement of Ramona as a shadow. We are all co-authors of a joint resolution of all the political group. And one of the reasons that my group wanted a resolution, and that we quickly agreed with the groups that are represented here, of course, was originally the conditionality issue and the fact that we were very concerned by the noises from Commissioner Hahn.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), He seemed to suggest that, well, you know, Orbán was doing quite well and we are not that far removed from a deal and incidentally, to be very clear, the European Commission is not negotiating with Hungary or indeed Poland. It has to assess the compliance with the criteria, which is not the same thing.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), So, I'm very worried if I hear the Commission say we're negotiating. No, they're not negotiating. There is no negotiation on the rule of law. But, we were a bit worried that Commissioner Hahn was too eager to give the green light to to Mr. Orbán. And we also, occasionally, have the feeling that he forgets that this is not about budget conditionality, but rule of law conditionality.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), This is clearly as a Commissioner for budgets. This is something which is not on top of mind. So therefore, we wanted the resolution as a little reminder to Commissioner Hahn. But then in the meantime, the issue of the the presidency also reared its head. And like my colleagues, I would like to say that I'm slightly underwhelmed by the sense of urgency and the determination of the Commission and the European Council expecting a strong statement and determined action by the Councils, a bit like "Waiting for Godot", I suppose.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), And we can see that their 13 years of appeasement with Mr. Orbán have been a resounding success? Not. But with regard to the presidency, obviously is for the Council itself to determine what to do with the Council presidency. We would, of course strongly recommend that they have a stiff talk with Mr. Orbán and convince him to to skip his turn. But if they do not do so, then the European Parliament is not entirely powerless.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Because the treaties say nothing about an obligation of the European Parliament to work with a Council presidency. And in what way? And I think there are many ways in which we can use the, let's say, usual cooperation channels during a presidency to make a point. For one, I think we should strip this presidency of all the glitter and glamour, no photo ops, no glitzy conferences.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), And I think you know, rather than giving an exclusive podium to Mr. Orbán and his sidekicks, we should actually give a podium to those who have been silenced in Hungary. And, of course, you know, we then run the risk that the Orban controlled media are not going to report on this. Therefore, I think every time we have somebody from the government on the podium, that person should be accompanied by somebody who has been silenced by the Orban regime.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), So a journalist, an academic, an NGO, you name it. And the second thing we can do is, well, there probably will not be a whole lot of legislative activity during that particular presidency. But I think we should also keep in mind that, you know, people were a bit worried about how Orban or his government is going to lead trilogues. Well, trialogues are not compulsory.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), We can also just vote, first reading, second reading, third reading. That's the normal procedure. We don't have to do trialogues. We do not have to depend on the Council presidency. You know, there are the traditional procedures.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), So, I think and I think we can think of many more ways of stripping the presidency, of all the opportunities for Orban to turn it into a podium for himself, make it a podium for the Hungarian people, and reduce the cooperation to the bare minimum. That would be my suggestion. Thank you.

SOUNDBITE (English), Malin BJÖRK (The Left, SE), Thank you. I will not repeat all the the observations that we as the European Parliament and our colleagues have outlined here in terms of the authoritarian drive and the development towards a non democracy in Hungary. Most of us, all of us here have of course been to Hungary. We have met people, we have heard the stories, We know what they are experiencing.

SOUNDBITE (English), Malin BJÖRK (The Left, SE), And I think it is very welcome that the EP is taking a lead while the Council and the Commission has like this putting your head in the sand is definitely what they have been trying to do while we have been racing in this, is different for us and now it's our way to say it out publicly. And so yes, there is actually an elephant in the room and it's called the EU presidency.

SOUNDBITE (English), Malin BJÖRK (The Left, SE), And to have a country that has been ruled out in terms of rule of law, to hold the president to lead our work, it is you know, it's like Isabel says, it weakens us all as a European Union. And it's also dangerous in terms of the situation we have now. It's actually, the only bromance going on at that leadership level is between Putin and Orban.

SOUNDBITE (English), Malin BJÖRK (The Left, SE), And I don't think we need that at this particular time. So I think that without sincere steps from Hungary to walk down the path of democratisation and rule of law, they cannot hold the EU presidency. It will be detrimental to all of us and also to people living in Hungary. So I would echo what has been said by my colleague Sophie here.

SOUNDBITE (English), Malin BJÖRK (The Left, SE), Skip the Hungarian presidency may say that you're very, very welcome back in the rotating systems, once you adhere to the principles of rule of law and democracy, the Council has all the powers to act and it has all the responsibility to act. And they have to do it now, because, as was said here, it's just around the corner.

SOUNDBITE (English), Malin BJÖRK (The Left, SE), And in addition to that, the European Parliament, of course, we will have to take a look at what measures we can do if the Council and depending on what the Council does. Thank you.

Q&A, Question regarding if there are any concrete changes that Hungary should make in order for the MEPs attitudine towards Hungary holding the EU Presidency to change.

Q&A, Question regarding the methods available for striping the Hungarian Presidency of the EU of its meaning.

Q&A, Question regarding the particular things Hungary could do during its Presidency which might be damaging for the EU.