Sophie IN 'T VELD (Renew Europe, NL) gives a press conference on the draft findings of EP spyware inquiry, in the European Parliament in Brussels. Active since April 2022, the European Parliament’s Committee of Inquiry to investigate the use of Pegasus and equivalent surveillance spyware (PEGA) has commissioned studies, held hearings with experts, and organised three fact-finding visits (to Israel, Poland and Greece), with more to follow. This transcription is a result of an automatic process. Please check against delivery.

press conference

IN 'T VELD, Sophia (Renew, NL)

Committee of inquiry to investigate the use of the Pegasus and equivalent surveillance spyware

Press conference by Sophie IN 'T VELD (Renew Europe, NL), rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry (PEGA Committee)

https://api.multimedia.europarl.europa.eu/documents/20125/66316488/1667905914010_I232818Chapters%5BSD-EN%5D.srt

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry, Good morning, everybody. Um, before I go to the substance of the report, uh, two things. First of all, I owe a big, uh, thank you to the people who've helped me prepared this report. First of all, Merta Chira and staying in my office, who've been literally working around the clock and delivering this text last night at half past one. And of course, Michael Hendrickx, Oleksander, Sara, Ottavio, Emily and Stephan.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry, I would also like to thank biggest project citizens lab amnesty and also all those diligent and courageous journalists who have done an amazing job in bringing wrongdoing to light, because I also realize that many of them pay a price for it. They're threatened, intimidated, slapped, and victims of spyware themselves. And I think Europeans owe them gratitude for the work they're doing for democracy because they are our very own Woodward and Bernstein.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry, Very quickly about the procedure and the status of the report. This is, let's say, a First picture if you want, after seven months of work I believe, we still have four to seven months to go in principle until March. And unless we get an extension until June, the First exchange of views will be on the twenty eighth of November. As to our work methods, becausebasically none of the authorities as has been willing to work with us.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry, So we got very little official information and confirmation and of course therefore we had to work on the basis of publicly available sources which we have done. And I think, as I always like to put it, we have let's say nine hundred pieces of a thousand piece jigsaw puzzle. So it's not complete, but I think we can see very clearly what the image is and if anybody has any complaints about the quality of the evidence, I would call on the authorities to stop obstructing and be transparent and share information.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry, And I would like to point out here that last night we got the reply from the Council to a letter we sent in July saying, thank you very much for your letter, but it's none of your business, European Parliament, and we feel not accountable to anyone.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry, On the report, let me start by by making a comparison. Recently, Elon Musk took over Twitter. And there is deep concern all around that he will give free reign to hatred and unleash the anti-democratic forces. Commissioner Thierry Breton immediately spoke out very firmly and warned Musk with a treat, for instance, where he says in Europe, the bird will fly by our rules.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry, The Commission is very determined to fight attacks on democracy from the outside. We have even a democracy action plan. We fight against fake news, foreign interference, etc. But when the attacks on democracy come from within, the Commission is silent. When the threat to democracy is not some far away stranger but the governments of EU member states, the Commission suddenly considers that the defense of European democracy is no longer a European matter, but a matter for the member states.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry, The Commission shows muscle to Musk, but velvet gloves to member states using spyware on citizens. And let's be clear, the abuse of spyware in EU member states is a grave threat to democracy on the entire continent. And just at the time where we need democracy more than ever, in this time of crisis, we need reliable and responsible and accountable governments.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry, The abuse of spyware does not just violate the right to privacy of individuals. It undermines democracy and democratic institutions. It silences opposition and critics, eliminates scrutiny. And it has a chilling effect on free press and civil society. It serves to manipulate elections.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry, The spyware scandal is not a national scandal. It's very much a European scandal. We tend to look at it through the keyhole of national politics. But if you connect the dots, suddenly another image emerges and suddenly you see this is an entirely European matter. For example, it affects directly the EU institutions, as MEPs, commissioners, Commission officials and ministers have been targeted.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry, Perpetrators, on the other hand, also sit on the European Council. It affects the integrity of elections and of decision making in the EU. It also touches upon a wide range of European laws and policies like the GDPR, but also export rules, procurement rules, whistleblower protection and what have you. We also observe that the spyware industry is a very shady industry, opaque and elusive and with very low ethical standards.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry, The term 'mercenary spyware' sums it up nicely, but it's fully Europeanist. Making use of the internal market, Schengen and the reputation of the EU label. Europe offers excellent conditions for the industry, including weak enforcement of rules. Thus, Europe has facilitated the exports of spyware to Libya, Egypt, Bangladesh, and other model democracies where it has been used against human rights defenders and journalists. So I think we have a couple of questions to ask ourselves as this community of values.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry, But let's have a look at what's happening in Europe itself. You will see in the report that we have a couple of country chapters. We've dedicated more space to some countries, but also space to some other countries. Let's start with Poland and Hungary. In a few words there, I think we see that spyware is an integral element of a system which is designed to control and even oppress the citizens.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry, That is the critics of the government, opposition journalists, whistleblowers. And it's very the whole system is a very methodically set up. It's not by accident. It's not a random tool that they're using. Then Greece, which is providing us with new developments every day, thank you very much Greece. The situation is very different there.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry, You cannot say that it's a let's say, a deliberately authoritarian system. But in Greece, we do see signs if it's all confirmed, of course, because we have to say this the whole time, we have to keep this, uh, this proviso. But there, too, we see that it is being used, let's say, in a very systematic and large-scale manner, clearly as part of a political strategy.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry, Spain is an entirely a very delicate situation, as you understand. We have very little official information of what's happening. But what we do see is that there strong indications that politicians and others have been monitored or spied upon, with no evident imminent immediate threat to national security. Now, I understand that it's delicate. And I would warmly invite the Spanish authorities to provide us with more information so that we can assess the situation.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry, Cyprus, the last country that we have dedicated a bigger chapter will to, need to look into that a lot more. We have indications that spyware has been used in citizens. But I think most worrying in Cyprus, this is the hub for exports of spyware. But we need to recognize that all member states have spyware at their disposal, all of them, even if they don't admit it, they do.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry, So I've already said they all play a role. Cyprus and Bulgaria export hubs. Luxembourg is where, uh, spyware vendors do their financial business. Ireland offers, uh, fiscal conditions, which are attractive. Malta, interestingly, seems to be a comfortable home to spyware bosses with golden passports and letterbox companies.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry, Italy, France and Austria are home to some very important manufacturers and vendors of spyware; the Czech Republic hosts every year the big spyware fair also referred to as The Wire Tepper's Bull. The Netherlands, Germany and Belgium have sort of more or less admitted that their police forces are using it, although not entirely.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry, The Netherlands, my own country, was apparently also in talks to acquire not just Pegasus, but also Predator was also home to two companies which were connected to an EZO. What we see is that some countries, some governments are abusing spyware. Others are still behaving properly. But all of them use the cloak of national security to create an area of lawless.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry, They pull the card of national security. And from that moment on, the door is closed, the windows are closed. No questions to ask, no accountability. You get no information. And this is also a problem for the victims because they go to the police or to a judge and say, please investigate my case, because I think I've been targeted.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry, But they're stonewalled. They get no information. And the prosecutor will say, yeah, but you have to prove that you were targeted, but you cannot prove it because you get no information. This is also a little bit the situation that the PEGA committee is in now. It's clear that measures have to be taken. So I have proposed a number of initiatives, just a small selection.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry, First of all, I have proposed that there will be an immediate moratorium, but the moratorium can be lifted on a country by country basis if four conditions are fulfilled. One is, in those countries where it applies, that all the allegations are properly investigated. Two, that the countries can prove that they have in place a framework for, let's say, responsible use of spyware.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry, Three, that they consent to Europol proposals to investigate. You know, that Europol has the power to propose an investigation. And we say that member states who want the moratorium lifted should consent to that. And four, in those countries where it applies that export licenses that do not pass the test have to be repealed immediately.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry, Then, of course, we have to regulate the use of spyware in line with the standards laid down in case law, by the human rights courts and by the Venice Commission. I think it's also important that we agree that there should be a common definition of national security or at the very least, the obligation for member states to define what national security is. What is the area that national security applies to and what regime will apply to that area.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry, We need to enforce the export rules vigorously because that's frankly a joke. We have dual use regulation, but the the enforcement is really not serious. And then another one, I call on the European Council to convene a special summit dedicated to the abuse of spyware.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry, But, and I'm coming to a conclusion, legislating and regulating alone will not do the trick, because without enforcement legislation is futile. And in the increasingly intergovernmental Europe, the commission shies away from enforcement, in particular in areas that touch upon European values. And we really need a profound rethink of the way that we have organized governance in the European Union.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry, In recent months, the EU has very rapidly built its defenses against attacks from the outside: war, pandemic, inflation, climate change. But when it comes to defending the most important thing, democracy and freedom, Europe is weak and impotent. The US have reacted very rapidly and with determination when, despite the spyware scandal was revealed.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry, And the US has withstood internal attacks on democracy. Watergate, January 6th. And yes, democracy is under pressure in the US as well. But There Institute are strong and are still functioning and they're not afraid to even confront the powers that be. But the EU is still immature as a democracy. I therefore believe that we need to launch a conference to discuss reform of the governance of the European Union with or without treaty change. Let's not get bogged down in that.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry, But in my view, we have to strengthen supranational enforcement. Otherwise there's no point in having supranational policies. And I would call on the member states to make a start today, and invite Europol in to investigate the spyware scandal, in particular, the countries where spyware has been used for political reasons. And those countries I have mentioned, and they know who they are.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry, And I would like to conclude by thanking all the colleagues, I'm grateful that we managed to set up this inquiry committee because this time last year that wasn't obvious. But I believe that we can make an important contribution because only the European Parliament is able to hold this inquiry.

SOUNDBITE (English), Sophia IN 'T VELD (Renew, NL), Rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry, Governments, all of them collectively, are trying to sweep it under the carpet, but we'll make sure it stays in the spotlight. The European Parliament will be the voice of Europeans. We will stand for democracy, thank you.

Press conference by Sophie IN 'T VELD (Renew Europe, NL), rapporteur on draft findings of EP spyware inquiry (PEGA Committee)

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