Parliament debates the recent ruling of the Polish Constitutional Tribunal during the plenary session in Strasbourg. MEPs discuss the contentious verdict of Poland’s Constitutional Tribunal, which states that cornerstone provisions of the Treaty on the EU (Art. 1 and 19) are unconstitutional under Polish law. Statement by Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister. This transcription is a result of an automatic process. Please check against delivery.

statement

Strasbourg

plenary session

EU mechanism on democracy, the rule of law and fundamental rights (T)

EU - Poland (T)

MORAWIECKI, Mateusz (PL)

The Rule of law crisis in Poland and the primacy of EU law: statement by Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister

https://api.multimedia.europarl.europa.eu/documents/20125/18251772/I212375Chapters%5BSD-EN%5D.srt

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, President, Commission President, ladies and gentlemen. I stand here today in front of you in the European Parliament to talk about a number of issues which are of key importance to the future of the EU, not only the future of Poland, but to the future of our whole community.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, I will talk about the crises that we are facing now. I will talk about the standards and rules that should be the same for all of us and that often they are not the same. And then I will talk about principles and based on who which no public organ can take any action outside of any competences granted to it.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, Then I will talk about the verdict of the Polish Constitutional Tribunal, what this verdict means to Poland and the EU. And I will talk about how diversity and in mutual respect, how they are important to all of us. Then I will talk about constitutional pluralism and then I will talk about risks which can and derive from the verdict of constitutional courts in Europe.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, Then I will talk about our future. Now, let me start from the most basic thing, which is challenges that we now have in front of US inflation, the rising costs, outside threats, exploding public debt. Illegal migration, energy crisis.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, All of these translate into public on the risks, and they just expand the already long catalogue of problems that we have on our hands. I think for the first time since the war, we have a quick question to answer can we guarantee a better future to our citizens now of the Mediterranean has become a tragic area due to the migration problem in the East.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, We have an aggressive policy by the Russian Federation. Russia starts even wars to threaten our friends. Also, we have a very serious energy crisis on our hands. Rising prices of energy also caused by activity by Russian energy providers. The scale of the crisis cannot shake the very foundations of a Europe in the weeks to come.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, Millions of companies might go bankrupt, and the gas crisis may drive tens of millions of EU citizens into poverty. No one crisis can have a domino effect in other areas. We cannot deal with such problems on our own. We must act together. I consider all of these problems, however, to be our problem, not only poverty problems.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, And now I will talk about the Polish contribution to our shared European project. EU integration is our choice. This is our destiny. Europe is our place. We do not want to go anywhere else. We want Europe to be strong and courageous.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, We are not looking at short term benefits. We also keep thinking about what we can give to Europe. Poland has been driving great benefits from economic integration. Also, technology transfers. Financial transfers are of key importance.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, But Poland did not join the EU empty handed. Poland's accession gave great commercial opportunities to German, French and other companies. Entrepreneurs and companies from those countries have really benefited from Poland's membership.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, For instance, I'm talking about transfers of dividends and benefits from poorer central European countries like Poland to a richer western European countries. But we want Poland's membership to be a win win situation for all. We want to participate in post-pandemic energy transformation, economic transformation.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, We want such answers to these questions to be adequate. We don't want our citizens to be left to fend for themselves. So in such areas, we have always spoken with the same voice as the EU parliament, for instance. Therefore, Poland, Germany, the Czech Republic, we have been promoting such solutions, which will boost the competitive of EU economy.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, We want to defend four basic principles the freedom of movement of goods, services, capital and people. We do not want to support, for instance, any tax havens. Some EU member states still maintain tax havens. Ladies and gentlemen, tax havens in the EU is the richest member states are making even more money. How is this part of our EU values? I doubt this.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, Poland is in favour of a strong enlargement policy that would strengthen the EU in the Western Balkan area. This will be completion of European integration. We want an EU which will have a strong foreign and defence policy fully irreconcilable with our NATO membership.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, Now we are facing a cynical attack on our eastern border, and it is Poland now which guarantees EU safety together with Lithuania and Latvia. We defend our external eastern border. We are strengthening the EU in a very traditional way. Now I am here in front of you today, and I want to thank our forces and services from Poland, Lithuania, Latvia. I want to thank our officials who are defending our external border

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, Security is a multi-dimensional phenomenon. Now we are seeing a rising gas prices and we realise what is the price to be paid for short term energy policy now allowing the building of a Nord Stream two pipeline and agreeing to Russia's policy in terms of energy. All of this has really translated into exploding energy prices in Poland.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, The trust to the EU is still at the level of 58 percent. 58 percent of Polish citizens are saying Poland is and remain it will remain an EU member states. Our government is part of this pro-European majority in Poland. Of course, this does not mean that the Polish citizens are not feeling concerned for the EU's future. This concern is well founded.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, I said how much Poland contributed to the EU, but still we keep hearing about first class and second class member states, and I will tell you why we must do away with this model. What European citizens are expecting of us is to face the number of crises that we have on our hands. We must act together and not name and shame.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, We must not point fingers at those who can be easily blamed. Unfortunately, we see all our citizens do see certain practises in the European institutions, and they keep asking themselves certain questions. Why? Well, there are different decisions and verdicts taken and issued regarding different member states of the EU. We see that the division between old and new, stronger and weaker.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, This division is strengthened and deepened, pretending we have no problems in front of us. This is not good. Our citizens are not blindly deaf unless we realise this. Our institutions will lose more and more support. This process is already underway. Dear ladies and gentlemen. Any policy must be based on two principles, and the very foundation of the EU is the principle of democracy.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, Therefore, we will not. We must not remain silent when our country is being attacked. Also in this room, in an unjust and in a partial way.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, The rules of the game must be the same for all, and abiding by such rules of the game is an obligation that all of us. This is what the rule of law is about. It is unacceptable to expand the competences of institutions by way of attack. We you must not impose a decision or verdict without a legal basis.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, It is unacceptable to talk about financial penalties, et cetera. We heard even worse language as it relates to some member states. I reject the language of threats and I will not have EU politicians blackmail Poland. Blackmail must not be a method of policy conducted vis-a-vis a certain member states.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, We are a proud country. Poland is one of the countries with the longest history of statehood and democracy in the 20th century. We fought for the freedom of Europe in 1920. We defend Paris and Berlin against a Soviet attack. In 1939, we fought the Third Reich, and then in 1981 the Solidarity Movement gave a new hope to fight with another totalitarian communist system.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, The post-war reconstruction of Europe was possible due to the contribution of many countries, but not all countries were able to benefit from that. Now, ladies and gentlemen, the rule of law. The rule of law is understood by many in different ways.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, But I think you will all agree that there will not be and the rule of law without the division of powers, independence of courts, without respect for the principle that any institution has a limited competence and without respect for the hierarchy of the sources of law. EU law has primacy over national law within areas delegated by a member state.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, This principle is recognised in all member states, but the highest law in the EU is a constitution of a country. If the EU institution and transgresses or infringes the delegated competences, then a member state must have tools to be able to react. The EU is a strong political and economic organism. It is the strongest, best developed international organisation in history, but is not a state.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, We have 27 member states in Europe. Member states remain European sovereigns. They remain masters of treaties. And it is the member states who decides what the competences delegated to the EU are. In EU treaties we delegated a lot of competences to the EU, but not everything. A number of areas remain within the competences of the member states.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, There is no doubt that EU law has primacy over national acts of law in those areas that were delegated by the member states of the EU. So similarly to other constitutional courts, the Polish Constitutional Court has asked the question whether it is the EU, could that decide where the line of division is between EU competences and member states' competences?

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, So if any new competences are to be granted to the EU, somebody has to decide whether they are reconcilable with national law. The Court of Justice seems to be seems to be deriving new competences for the EU.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, Otherwise, why would we have Article four of the treaty talking about respect for constitutional right arrangements of member states? Why do we have Article five saying that the EU may only act within competences granted to it? These two articles would be null and void if it was only up to the Court of Justice to decide where the line of division is.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, Ladies and gentlemen, I do realise that the recent decision of the Polish Constitutional Court has become an object of a fundamental misunderstanding. If I were to hear that a constitutional court in another member state has cancelled or declared null and void the EU treaties, I would be surprised, but I would try to check.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, So this is the reason over why I am here. I want to tell you what the bone of objection is. We should not be spreading further lies about Poland's accedes accedes, Poland leaving the EU, et cetera, et cetera. So I want to present you with some facts, some some quotes. First of all, in our national legal system, the primacy of EU law does not extend to constitutional or constitutional system.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, So the principle of primacy of EU law must not threaten a member states' constitutional system. Third, our Constitutional Court can check for the principle of interest over whether to check whether EU institutions have infringed upon their competences as a result of such a decision. Such ultra vires acts by the EU would not be applicable on the territory of the member states.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, Fourth, our Constitution does not allow it to delegates the competences in a way which would result in the conclusion that Poland is no longer a sovereign country. I would skip further quotes in order to not waste too much time, but just two more.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, Poland's constitution is the highest Polish Legal Act as relates international agreements, also including agreements on delegating and legal competences, and the last quote delegating competences to the EU must not infringe upon the principle of supremacy of the primacy of Poland's Constitution.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, I can see on your faces that you disagree with me. I don't understand why you disagree. These are quotes that I quote were quoted from the French Constitutional Tribunal, the German Federal Constitutional Court, the Danish court and I skipped the decisions of Italian and Spanish courts, and the quotes from the Polish Constitutional Tribunal or court were from 2004 2005. So after Poland joined the EU.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, So what we are defending now, this doctrine has been clearly known for a number of years now. Now let me quote Professor Marek Safian. Based on our constitution now, we cannot conclude that there is primacy of EU law over Poland's constitution. Polish Constitution is the highest legal act in Poland.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, We have expressily ruled down that there is the primacy of EU law over Polish legal acts, but not including the Polish Constitution. I can quote a number of other examples from Lithuania, Romania and other countries. I can hear in the public debates that some of these verdicts that I have quoted are related to other issues.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, Yes, it's true. Any specific verdict always relates to something different, but for God's sake, there is one thing in common. It confirms that member States' Constitutional Court recognise their own rights to control. No more, no less control, whether EU law is being executed, implemented within the competences that weren't granted to it.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, Now, ladies and gentlemen, we have in the EU a number of countries without constitutional courts. We have those that have constitutional courts. We have countries where EU membership is inscribed in their constitutions. Some do not have such rules.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, We have countries where judges are elected by politicians. We have countries where judges elected by our other judges. So clearly there is a space for dialogue between us. Such dialogue is also being implemented by decisions by our judges. But we will never agree to have instructions or dictates issued to member states. This is not what EU is about.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, Ladies and gentlemen, we have a lot in common. We want to have a more and more in common. But there are differences between us. If we are to cooperate, we must agree that such differences exist. The EU will not fall apart only because our legal systems will be different. We have been functioning like this for decades now.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, Maybe one day in the future, we do agree to align our legal systems. But for that to happen, what is needed is a sovereign decisions by sovereign member states. So now what we can do is we can agree to all attempts to limit the sovereignty of Poland, and we can agree to the creeping expansion of the competences of the European Court of Law.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, We what we are seeing now is a creeping revolution taking place by way of a verdict of the European Court of Justice. All we can say no. If you want a supranational state in Europe first, why don't you ask and get consent from all these sovereign member states? Let me repeat: the highest law of the Republic of Poland is the Constitution. It stands above any other sources of the law.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, This principle will be defended by Polish parliament and government. But let me stress that the Polish Constitutional Court has never declared that the stipulations of EU treaties are irreconcilable with the Polish law. On the contrary, Poland abides by EU treaties.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, The Polish Tribunal stated that one specific interpretation of EU treaties is irreconcilable with the Polish constitution resulting from the recent verdict by the Court of Justice. Now let me move on to another part of my speech.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, What risk can be derived from one judge questioning of a verdict of another judge? So, according to the Strasbourg court, Polish judges who would be required to agree that not only EU law has primacy over Polish acts of law, which is obvious.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, But also that they would need to act in infringement of Polish Constitution, which would mean that millions of verdicts issued by Polish courts recently can be challenged by in an arbitrary way. Millions of verdicts. This would be in clear breach of the principle of independence and stability of law. This principle is inscribed in the Polish Constitution.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, Do you realise what such decisions can lead to? Do you want to have anarchy and lawlessness in Poland? Really? The consequence consequence of this would be a lowering of the standard of constitutional protection of Polish citizens, and we will not agree to this. No sovereign state will ever agree to this.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, Agree to such a principle would mean that the EU ceases to be an assosiation of sovereign states and by the way the EU is transformed into a centrally governed European state, where European institutions can force their so-called provinces to do as the central power wants.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, This is not what we agreed in the treaties. Definitely, we can talk about whether the EU has to change, whether we need a bigger budget, whether we need to spend more on defence. Poland is suggesting such a discussion. Maybe we should boost our resilience to outside hybrid shock to the cyber threats.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, Maybe we should better control investments into strategic sectors of our economy, how to better finance, climate and energy transformation, how to make our decision making process as more effective. What to do in order to allow our citizens not to feel estranged from the EU. I have asked these questions because I think they will shape the future of the EU.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, We must discuss such issues. So now let me talk briefly about EU competences, important decisions in the EU must not be taken by changes in the interpretation.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, European integration was based on the fact that a law was a result of a mechanisms that connected us in all the different areas. Now, trying to reverse this mechanism, trying to impose a law is really questioning the mechanism that created the success of European integration. We keep hearing about the deficit of democracy in Europe, but never before has this been so visible.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, As over the last couple of years, more and more frequently decisions are taken behind closed doors by way of activism by European judges. More and more such decisions are taken without clear treaty bases, but by way of legal creativity, without any control. This phenomenon has been growing, and now we must say no, we must stop. EU competences have clear boundaries.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, We must not remain silent when those boundaries are breached. So we are saying yes to European universalism, but we say no to European centralism. I as any one of you present here, I submit to Democratic Control. I represent a government elected in 2015, a government which was given a chance to govern independently.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, Than in 2018, 2019, 2020, Polish citizens were evaluated in a democratic way how we work. And we were given the strongest democratic mandate in our country for 30 years in Poland, and no other party received a similar results as a law and justice, without support from abroad, without support from big business, without a quarter of the same immediate protection as our competitors.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, These lectures that we keep hearing quite paternalistic, how we have to govern our country, that we are immature, apparently that our democracy is apparently young. This is a tragic narrative on the part of some friends in Europe.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, Poland has a long democratic history. Solidarity. So penalties by a stronger, richer countries imposed on poorer countries who still struggling with the heritage of the Communism. This is not a good way for the future. Poland respects EU law. Poland will not be intimidated, and we are expecting dialogue.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, For this dialogue to be possible let me suggest some some changes. We must have clear dialogue based on the principle of checks and balances. Why don't we have a chamber in the Court of Justice, including judges from European Constitutional Courts? This is my suggestion now.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, The final decision will be taken by our citizens, but our courts should have at their disposal a mechanism to seek cooperation and solutions to our problems. Now, to conclude, let me ask you what are the sources of the strength of our civilisation?

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, History gives us the following answer. We became powerful because we were the most diverse continent in the world. Neil Ferguson writes: "Political empires of the East stifled innovation, but in mountainous western Eurasia monarchies and states, they competed against one another and communicated with another Europe".

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, Europe emerged victorious because it maintains a balance between competition and cooperation. And now we still we again need to win both of these things. Ladies and gentlemen, I want a powerful great Europe fighting for equal opportunities. I want a Europe which can resist authoritarian regimes.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, A Europe that respects the cultures and traditions from which it emerged. I want a Europe that clearly sees the challenges of the future, that works on solutions that will be best for the whole world. This is a great challenge on our hands now, dear friends. Only in this way will we be able to give EU citizens a new hope, a will to live, to fight, to be successful.

SOUNDBITE (Polish), Mateusz MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister, This is a great challenge. Let's take it on together. Long live Poland. Long live Europe. The best place under the Sun. Thank you.