During a key debate proposed by the Greens/EFA, MEPs discuss the use of the Pegasus Software by EU Member States against individuals including MEPs and the violation of fundamental rights. Closing statements by Johannes HAHN, European Commissioner for Budget and Administration and by Clément BEAUNE, French Minister of State for European Affairs. This transcription is a result of an automatic process. Please check against delivery.

Strasbourg

debate

plenary session

fight against cyber attacks (T)

HAHN, Johannes (AT, EC)

BEAUNE, Clément (FR)

Use of the Pegasus Software by EU Member States against individuals including MEPs and the violation of fundamental rights: closing by Johannes HAHN, European Commissioner for Budget and Clément BEAUNE, French Minister of State for European Affairs

SOUNDBITE (German), Johannes HAHN, European Commissioner for Budget and Administration, I would honestly like to thank everyone for this debate. Also in my personal capacity, because although I'm not directly responsible for this, but I feel affected by this because seven years ago I stood here and talked about a scandal in a northern Macedonia where 20,000 citizens were listened to. And honestly, nobody really listened. And the debate from left to right was only about the question of the names and not the fact that 24,000 people were being listened to. But it really made me think about things. And the country is actually in a much better state now, and it's thinking about its European perspectives.

SOUNDBITE (German), Johannes HAHN, European Commissioner for Budget and Administration, But I think there is a broad consensus on this that it's not just a question of discussing this, that we need this committee of enquiry to be set up. And I can only guarantee that we, as a Commission, and I said this at the beginning on behalf of the Commission, that we won't just be being present to listen, but we will be making an active contribution with all of the tools that we have.

SOUNDBITE (German), Johannes HAHN, European Commissioner for Budget and Administration, But I have to say, well, of course, we're worried and concerned if people are being listened to. Of course, we need to find out what's happening. But then it is also up to police and judicial authorities to act in the countries where we have detected problematic behaviour. And I think it is also important to recall that this is something that the committee of enquiry can do, that there are sufficient rules about what needs to be done.

SOUNDBITE (German), Johannes HAHN, European Commissioner for Budget and Administration, The question is, a. are they finding the right people and then b. it is a nobody's perfect. I mean, are improvements being made? Are we gaining experience on the basis of what's happened? And if not, I do think it's a good idea to make proposals. I think we all agree that illegal listening monitoring is unacceptable. As Lukas Mandl said, it is a crime and crimes need to be punished. And I think that we all agree on that. And so thank you not just for today's debate, but also the initiative of setting up the committee.

SOUNDBITE (French), Clément BEAUNE, French Minister of State with responsability for European Affairs, I am very pleased to have been here for this important debate, and I'd like to thank Mrs. Bricmont for your comment. I met you as soon as I could. Following the Council meeting that I had to attend. And obviously the French presidency wants to be here as much as possible, and we have been present at more than the three previous presidents. I'd just like to highlight that, we were here this morning and as I say, I joined you as soon as I could, and I was present at the debate on the 16th of February last, because this is an important subject and continues to be an important part.

SOUNDBITE (French), Clément BEAUNE, French Minister of State with responsability for European Affairs, And I'd like to congratulate Mrs. Bricmont for raising awareness about this subject and also for setting up this committee of enquiry into Pegasus. And you have my commitment on this and we will contribute as much as we can to the work that's being done. We would just like to recall, and this is something I'd like to show, that the illegal use of surveillance software to tap into telephones and other software is illegal and should be subject to criminal and legal procedures. You've said this during the debate.

SOUNDBITE (French), Clément BEAUNE, French Minister of State with responsability for European Affairs, The European Union is based on the value of democracy and rule of law, the freedom of expression and freedom of information. And we celebrated the freedom of the press yesterday. Protection of the media, protection of private life are fundamental principles. And this is something which was presented here by President Macron during the Conference on the Future of Europe. This is one of the subjects that we could include in the debate, because many citizens were here for the work, and many of them mentioned the importance of our work in protecting freedoms, the protection of the press, and protection of personal data.

SOUNDBITE (French), Clément BEAUNE, French Minister of State with responsability for European Affairs, We have a joint responsibility between the institutions, the European Union and its institutions. And it may be necessary to have restrictions on private life for certain purposes, particularly national security, the fight against crime, but as you have said, and particularly as the Court of Justice has highlighted in its case law and the Data Privacy Ombudsman says that there is a very strict framework to guaranteeing these rights. And as the Commissioner has said, it is up to each member state. We mustn't avoid our responsibilities to carry out investigations, and that is the responsibility of judicial authorities to detect any irregularities or crimes that have been committed.

SOUNDBITE (French), Clément BEAUNE, French Minister of State with responsability for European Affairs, And I said that in February there have been independent enquiries by several public prosecutors, and I know that this is the case in a number of member states, but obviously we have a European responsibility because this situation is a reminder of our constant vulnerability in terms of cyber security. And it's a question not just of protecting economic activity, it's also protecting us when we're using telephones etc.. And obviously, often telephones are an extension of ourselves, of our private lives. Europe was the first region to have provisions on data protection. Together with the Parliament and accelerating work under the French presidency, we are very close to achieving important regularly to DSA and DMA, but there are some shortcomings in terms of the protection of our infrastructures and our data and the security sector is part of our priorities for the presidency.

SOUNDBITE (French), Clément BEAUNE, French Minister of State with responsability for European Affairs, And so I would just like to highlight the very productive work which is being done at European level between the Parliament and the Council, which has almost been completed by the Parliament so that we can reach an agreement on the security of systems and will be a way of increased protection for our private lives and sovereignty. As I have said during this presidency, which ends on the 30th of June, and then in future as a member state, to work on this as much as possible and make every contribution we can and to strengthen our rights and our freedom.